How Much Does It Cost to Buy Into the Foundation--Really?
I hear constant talk that the winners of the KBAs are determined by how much of a personal financial contribution a person makes. Don't expect to snag one of these coveted awards unless you do pay through the nose.
Likewise, it's said that the winners of the IBCs are pre-determined again by who makes a financial contribution and by and how much. To ensure your Blues society wins next year, grease a few palms. Don't worry a whether your society's representative has any talent. A hefty donation can secure your win next year.
Exactly how much does it cost to buy into the foundation? And other than snagging bragging rights, which everyone knows you paid for, what do you get for your greasing the palms of certain people in the foundation?
Likewise, it's said that the winners of the IBCs are pre-determined again by who makes a financial contribution and by and how much. To ensure your Blues society wins next year, grease a few palms. Don't worry a whether your society's representative has any talent. A hefty donation can secure your win next year.
Exactly how much does it cost to buy into the foundation? And other than snagging bragging rights, which everyone knows you paid for, what do you get for your greasing the palms of certain people in the foundation?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Chad Nordhoff on -
My first experience with an IBC affiliated competition was all it took. My band got a very enthusiastic reaction. The audience seemed almost shocked, like they didn't expect the type of set we dilivered. I never really get my hopes up about such things but it seemed we were a clear favorite.
At the end of the night, the band that won invited me to their yearly jam during the IBC in Memphis. They already had the gig and the hotel rooms booked.
I'm not sure about the cost of admission. For my money I'll just buy the publicity directly.
(A first class ticket on the Titanic was about $2400 in today's money)
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Permalink Reply by CHC Network on -
Chad,
So you are saying that before this band was announced the "winner", they had the gig, and the rooms booked for an after finals party? Either this is really presumptuous, or they knew (somehow) that they were going to win.
Does anyone have similar stories?
How many others are going to suckered through this funnel to find out that everything had been pre-determined?
Talking of things being predetermined, think of it: Before you and the band arrive, the M&Ms know who is going to play, what society each represents, the venue they will play, the order in which they will appear each night, they already have this information printed up in their booklets before you arrive. They also know who will be judging, the venues that they will judging at and the bands that they will judge.
Is it really too much of a stretch to say that the winners have already been determined? If so, how was this determined? It sounds really greasy when you consider everything.
As for exposure, until recently, the Memphis Commercial Appeal didn't give this event but a passing nod in its publication. And other than for the media within the Blues community, where else is this news published? I ran into people almost nightly at this year's IBCs who had no idea that this was even taking place. Why? If this event isn't being covered by the media outside of the Blues, how much exposure are you really receiving?
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Permalink Reply by Matt Marshall on -
eeh, IMHO to flat assume that the IBCs are pre-determined by the BF is probably assuming a little too much. Realistically, that means they'd have to get quite a few independent judges to agree to essentially throw the fight, which would be a pretty impressive feat in itself. And there's quite a good number of musicians there, too. Though what you said wasn't without merit: I just think there's a lot of other influencing factors.
I went to the IBCs this year and noticed several acts that were very clear crowd winners and talented performers get snubbed for seemingly no reason. I saw a few of the scorecards later and for the life of me, I could not make heads or tails of some of the inexplicable comments & scores. I even went back and looked at the videos I took from Silky's for one set of competition to try and see what they were talking about. Could be the diversity of the judges, could be the lighting conditions, could be the crowd, could be the artist! dunno.
Though I think part of it is promotion, CHC. Just like any other awards show/competition/etc... a month or so before IBC, I got a whole flurry of promotional e-mails from various artists competing in IBC promoting themselves and getting their name in blues lovers' heads. I also saw a whole host of ads on blues sites promoting one artist or another, attempting to sway opinions before IBC. I don't know that it's morally wrong or even ambiguous... simply marketing. Part of the factor of those that won could have been (and was) also judges' preferences. But that's why there's three of them, to try to keep it balanced. Except if one judge doesn't like a particular style of blues in general, (or anything else for that matter) their scores for that performer could easily stop them from advancing, even if the other two gave high scores. But that's just the nature of the beast. I don't think it's anybody's fault, really. And I think it would be awfully hard for the folks at the foundation to actually control the outcome of the competition. Plus that would compromise the integrity of the foundation and the cause they're serving, and I think they simply wouldn't be willing to that just to reward a few folks that've paid.
But in the end, I think there was a lot of extremely talented artists that played hard and advanced accordingly, and Grady Champion really kicked some tail.
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Permalink Reply by CHC Network on
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Yes, Grady did "kick some tail" this year, but consider...
Pre-arranged after Finals, victory parties...
Inexplicable comments made concerning the bands...even upon examination...
Claims that a band that competes one year and is bumped for a technicality returns the following year to take it...
Pre-arranged bands, playing pre-arranged venues, the order in which they will appear each night, they already have this information printed up in their booklets before you arrive. Also pre-arranged judges, judging bands at pre-arranged venues, bands that they will judge.
A performer who comes from the largest Blues society in the country whose sole performance in the Finals consists of getting the spotlight to show on members of her band...
While much can be said about the bands promoting themselves prior to traveling to Memphis, it would be only fitting. For many of these bands the fact that they were chosen to represent is perhaps one of the biggest things that has happened to them. It's only fitting that they would want to crow about it.
But despite what they may do to promote themselves prior to the IBCs, this isn't what they are judged on.
As it was pointed out to me, you needn't influence these judges opinions, you only have to skew the outcomes...
Sour grapes, maybe. But this doesn't only happen in Memphis. I have had others point out that it happens at the Blues society level as well.
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Permalink Reply by Chad Nordhoff on
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I'll stop short of suggesting that there's the safe at the Peabody holds a secret list of winners. What's plain to see is that there is a culture that exists within this community. Ya just kinda know who's not supposed to win. For example, let's say a competing artists plays a banjo. The banjo (an African instrument) is not unprecedented in blues music but if you play it too fast it will become blueGRASS and then you're disqualified. There are narrowly defined "traditional" perameters. The judges don't operate outside of the perameters (at least, not if they want to be invited again I suspect). Surely politics plays a large role but I don't see a pot at the end of the rainbow that's worth all the trouble to rig the entire outcome. Besides, if the Foundation can truly pull of something that heavy, I may reconsider and join. lol
In my case (speak of the devil, they invited me via email only moments ago, to compete again) my band went on first. If I were a judge, I wouldn't really know how to score the first act until I had seen the others. What would I compare them too exactly? On a scale of 1 to 5, I might hold back the 5s until later, just in case. I don't know if the deal was 'rigged' exactly. Nor do I care. It's satisfying enough that others had suggested that it was, even before knowing the winning band already had the golden ticket.
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Permalink Reply by CHC Network on
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LOL No, and I am not saying that the names of the winners are kept in a hermetically sealed mayonnaise jar until late this afternoon...
You are correct in saying that there is a culture that exists within this community, and they are hard at work to preserve an element of this music which has lost any authenticity it once had. To this end, anal retentive Jay Seileman and his cronies work to eliminate anything that does not "come close..." http://bit.ly/bxyHZz If these rigid constructionists are working this hard to correct any one who colors outside the lines, how real can this music really, truly be?
If judging were open to the attending public, much as it is on TV, would this be any more fair than having it judged by " noted experts" who are hand picked by the Foundation?
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Permalink Reply by Matt Marshall on
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Yeah , I think I'd agree with those assertions Chad and CHC. I've heard this discussion more than once that they seem to judge inside an awfully small box of "what's acceptable" as "true blues". Personally I think it's a pretty thin line to walk. Not being open to any sort of experimentation is a good way to shoot yourself in the foot in terms of relevance.
And I also wholeheartedly agree with the fact that judging the first act is going to be different than judging the third, etc. That makes perfect sense, and kind of goes along with what I was suggesting. Just human is all!
And, yeah, I agree, if the foundation could pull off THAT caper I'd buy two memberships!
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Permalink Reply by Chad Nordhoff on
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More and more I see the inherent problem with judging people on guidelines of 'tradition'. Any version of "Crossroads Blues" after 1937 is going to be a more modern interpretation. When, where, and why did the traditions freeze in place?
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Permalink Reply by Matt Marshall on
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Good way to put it.
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Permalink Reply by CHC Network on
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And how, why and by whom was it decided that this was how this music would sound into perpetuity?
Matt,
You say it is a stretch "to flat assume that the IBCs are pre-determined by the BF is probably assuming a little too much." Is it really? By whom are the judges chosen? By what criteria? When they meet before the competition begins they are briefed as to what is being looked for and this is made clear. During the day, meetings are held, many of these closed. And don't try to engage a judge outside of the competition. I haven't seen a tighter click since I was in high school. (But maybe this was a personal impression. )
During the competitions, the judges are the only group of people catered to as they are. While there are more volunteers present than the judges for these competitions, the judges are the only ones given an open bar and are permitted to order from a menu from the venue in which they are judging. ( I don't know whether there is a limit as to what they can order, but...) Aren't the other volunteers worthy of similar treatment? (This alone sounds as though the judges are being paid off. If not for their decisions, then what? )
Attending the competitions this year as a volunteer, I was made a "runner" (which incidentally gave me the advantage of seeing how each judge graded each performer in that venue), When I decided that I had to take a load off and rest my feet during a performance, I was told by one of the judges "(I) was not to sit at the table". I hadn't. The nearest available chair was a good two arm-lengths from the the judges table. While I waited for my next "run," I kept to myself. But it was okay for me to take their drink and food orders, serve them and run with their results. But I couldn't sit near their table. Explain this to me as I apparently missed something.
Many of the chosen judges are recognized throughout the community; many of these are judges year after year. As many of these people attend BF functions throughout the year, wouldn't their preferences be known?
How is it decided at which venue each performer would appear? This is decided in plenty of time to gather all necessary information, lay it out, print it, produce and distribute it. It's obvious this is done in advance and with full knowledge from which society/association each band is from. With today's technology, emphasis on video and MP3s being what it is, I think it is more of a stretch to think that these participating performers have not been heard of before they appear on Beale Street. Likewise, the Blues societies, etc.
I think it would be more fair if the bands were the clear people's choice. Although we obviously do not have the means to let other than those attending make this decision, I think the bands would be then chosen more on individual merit than by such narrow definition of what this music should sound like.
Resist the urge to allow some anal retentive to make this choice for you.
IMHO
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Permalink Reply by CHC Network on
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Oh, I should add, for those wishing to volunteer for next year's IBCs: Although you may be told one thing in email, be prepared to shell out for a ticket should you wish to go to any other venue other than the one to which you are appointed to work.
While Joe told me one thing by email, when I got down to Memphis and appeared for my assignment, Jay told me something else.
The only thing I got for my time and energy was a "Thanks for your professionalism."
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Permalink Reply by Chad Nordhoff on
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Somewhat related to this topic:
TAKING A FRESH LOOK AT THE FUTURE OF BEALE STREET
.by Reba Russell on Sunday, August 8, 2010 at 2:50pm.THE MAYOR HAS PUT TOGETHER A PANEL OF VERY COOL PEOPLE TO EXPLORE THE FUTURE POTIENTAL/VISION OF BEALE STREET. I ALMOST BELIEVE IT IS POSSIBLE THIS IDEA COULD ACTUALLY CREATE SOMETHING TANGIBLE. WITH THE ALL THE VARIOUS RANTING I HAVE DONE OVER THE YEARS ABOUT THE TREATMENT OF MUSICIANS ON BEALE AND MEMPHIS IN GENERAL, SOMEHOW FOR THE FIRST TIME, I FEEL OPTOMISTIC....CAUTIOUSLY OPTOMISTIC.
I DO NOT PRETEND TO HAVE ANY SOLUTIONS TO WHAT I BELIEVE ARE THE BIG MISTAKES THAT HAVE BEEN MADE OVER THESE MANY YEARS IN OUR MUSIC COMMUNITY, BUT I DO KNOW ONE THING FOR SURE...MUSICIANS ARE WHAT TURN THE BIG COG ON THE WHEEL THAT MAKES MEMPHIS A DESTINATION CITY. PERIOD, END OF STORY. MUSIC PEOPLE!!....MUSIC AND ART IS WHAT MAKES THIS CITY HUM WITH TOURIST DOLLARS. THERE IS NO DENYING IT, NO ARGUMENT CAN BE MADE ABOUT THIS FACT. IN MY OPINION ALL ROADS LEAD TO OUR HERITAGE AS A MUSIC CITY. IT IS THE NUMBER ONE THING TOUTED IN EVERY TOURISM BROCHURE ABOUT MEMPHIS. WITHOUT MUSIC BRINGING PEOPLE TO TOWN, WE MAY NOT HAVE AS MANY PREMIRE RESTURANTS, HOTELS, SPORTS TEAMS OR A HISTORIC BEALE STREET!
THERE IS JUST ONE PROBLEM WITH MUSIC....HUMAN BEINGS HAVE TO CREATE IT. DANG! YEP, SOMEHOW YOU HAVE TO PUT UP WITH THE DAMN MUSICIANS TO GET THE MUSIC! OH CRAP!....AND NOT ONLY THEM...BUT ALL THEIR BUDDIES TOO...THOSE SOUND ENGINEERS AND LIGHTING PEOPLE...WOW, WHO KNEW WE'D HAVE TO FEED ALL THOSE FOLKS JUST TO GET SOME MUSIC PLAYED?
SARCASM ASIDE..IF THERE IS ONE THING THAT PERHAPS BEALE STREET COULD DO BETTER IT IS TO RESPECT MUSICIANS. MUSICIANS PLAY THE NUMBER ONE ROLE IN THE LIFE OF BEALE STREET. IF YOU STARVE YOUR TALENT EVENTUALLY THE TALENT GOES AWAY. WHETHER THAT MEANS LEAVING TOWN OR GIVING UP MUSIC BECAUSE YOU CAN'T MAKE ENDS MEET...OR LITERALLY DYING. RESPECTING MUSICIANS... THAT MEANS PAYING A FAIR WAGE, ASKING THE FINE PEOPLE ON THE POLICE FORCE TO TRY TO TOLERATE LOAD IN AND LOAD OUT, GIVING MEALS AND DRINKS TO MUSICIANS AND YES...MAYBE EVEN FREE PARKING! OH LAWD DARE I EVEN MENTION IT?!
I DON'T REALLY EXPECT MUCH TO CHANGE...BEEN HERE TOO LONG AND HAD SO MUCH WATER PASS UNDER THE BRIDGE THAT I AM EAT UP WITH SKEPTICISM... BUT MAYBE SOME OF YOU SMARTER FOLKS CAN GIVE YOUR VALUABLE INPUT TO THE FINE PANEL THAT MAYOR WHARTON HAS ASSEMBLED AND BEGIN TO MAKE A DENT IN ARMOUR OF OUR TIRED STATUS QUO. THE APPOINTED PANEL IS CHOCK FULL OF GREAT MUSICIANS AND PEOPLE WHO HAVE SHOWN THEIR LOYALTY TO MEMPHIS AND IT'S MUSICIANS AND ARTISTS. I FOR ONE CHEER THEM ON AND WILL HOLD ON TO SOME HOPE THAT THINGS WILL BE BETTER AND BRIGHTER FOR MUSICIANS WHO HAVE GIVEN THIER BEAUTIFUL MUSICAL TALENTS TO MEMPHIS AND SPENT THEIR LIVES MAKING BEALE STREET FAMOUS.
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